A Commentary on the Dissident Dialogues: The Islamic Voltaire Ayaan Hirsi Ali vs. The Horseman Richard Dawkins

By: Omar Rushlive L. Arellano

On November 11, 2023, renowned atheist Ayaan Hirsi Ali declared to the world that she is already a Christian.¹ Doubting her announcement, Richard Dawkins, in his interview with Alex O’Connor, comments that she has a wrong approach to religion. He argues that while religious truth claims should be of primary concern, Hirsi Ali merely focuses on Christianity’s moral benefits, which is that it becomes a bulwark against the growth of disorderly and dangerous “faiths,” such as “Putin, China, and Islam.” Dawkins views Hirsi Ali’s conversion as one that is fundamentally motivated by political and moral considerations.² They had a recorded public conversation on the platform Dissident Dialogues on June 1, 2024, which this article intends to give a commentary on.

Who is Ayaan Hirsi Ali?

I find it necessary to give a compressed account of Hirsi Ali’s experience before proceeding to the commentary, because it is my hope that her testimony will serve to encourage us, and to make us pay attention to her clarion call against the evils blinding Western nations. This section heavily relied on her autobiography, Infidel (2008).

Hirsi Ali adopted her grandfather’s birth name, Ali, when she applied for Asylum in Holland.³ Her real name is Ayaan Hirsi Magan.⁴ Her siblings are Haweya (sister) and Mahad (brother).⁵ Her parents are Hirsi Magan (father) and Asha Artan (mother).⁶

For a brief background, her mother had her first marriage when she was eighteen to a man named Ahmed. Her father arranged for this, and though the man was wealthy, she despised him. Their union produced a son named Muhammad.⁷ When Asha Artan’s father died, she divorced her old husband. One day, she met Hirsi Magan who was her literacy teacher at that time. They were mutually attracted to each other and got married in 1966.⁸ This happened while Hirsi Magan was still married to his first wife.

Hirsi Ali’s father was well-known in Somalia. He ran for parliament (though he lost), funded literacy campaigns with his own money, was involved in a project that built a dam that gave water to the people⁹, and co-founded the Somali Salvation Democratic Front (SSDF) which opposed the socialist Siad Barre.¹⁰ Unfortunately, she was deprived of her father in her childhood and only heard about him from her grandmother,¹¹ because Afwayne put him in prison.¹²

Hirsi Ali’s early years were spent in Somalia under her mother’s firm parenting: she had to follow a fixed daily schedule of meals and prayers, whereas her grandmother was lenient with their mealtime when she was in charge.¹³ At five years old, she received a strict education in a Quran school and learned the Quran and Arabic, as well as the unwanted status of being a kintirleey, which means “she with the clitoris.”¹⁴ Her grandmother had her and Haweya undergo genital mutilation as she believed along with the imams that this would prevent them from being possessed by the devils and subsequently falling into whoredom.¹⁵

The worsening conflict between Somalia and Ethiopia prompted them to move to Saudi Arabia. It was also at this point when her father had escaped from prison with the help of its director who would later be executed by the firing squad.¹⁶ Islamic practices were more rigid in Saudi Arabia than in Somalia, even segregating the boys from the girls in the Quran school. But they were not taught how to write, but only to recite and learn the Quran, which they could not understand because it was Arabic. There, Hirsi Ali and Haweya were discriminated against for their skin color by being called Abid or slave.¹⁷

When they met their father for the first time, Hirsi Ali found his personality a stark contrast to her mother’s. His open-mindedness and modernity, along with his showering of compliments and affection made her describe that season of her life as one when she bloomed. He encouraged them to ask questions about God and to pursue rational thinking.¹⁸

In the course of their stay in Saudi Arabia, Hirsi Ali perceived the rampant domestic abuse in their Muslim neighborhood. She also witnessed their irrational hatred for the Jews, who were invariably blamed for everything that went wrong in their day-to-day activities, however unrelated. The children were taught to regularly pray for their destruction, and teachers did not fail to relate the evils they had done against Muslims.¹⁹ Also, the deteriorating relationship between her parents caused her mother to be seen alone at times, which was taboo. She was highly discriminated against due to this, besides being a black foreigner (which made them see her as less than human), and even grocers did not attend to her needs.²⁰

Hirsi Ali started real school in Riyadh, learning Arabic, math, and the Quran. The Quran study was divided into “a reciting class, a class on meaning, a class on the hadith, which are the holy verses written after the Quran, a class on the sirat, the traditional biographies of the Prophet Muhammad, and a class on fiqh, Islamic law.”²¹ They also learned to recite the ninety-nine names of Allah, and also how women should behave, which includes: “what to say when we sneezed; on which side we should begin to sleep, and to what position it was permissible to move during sleep; with which foot to step into the toilet, and in what posture to sit.”²² The teacher also liked to call Hirsi Ali as Aswad Abda, which means “black slave-girl.”

In Kenya, she learned to read in English, and this made her and Haweya devour a lot of books, such as Best Loved Tales of the Brothers Grimm, a collection of Hans Christian Andersen, and Nancy Drew adventures.²³ Their father left them again for a very long time. And she began to take over an unfair amount of responsibilities, seeing her siblings’ reluctance to help. She felt obligated as the eldest daughter. She cleaned the floors and the clothes by hand, prepared the next day’s breakfast, and accompanied her mother wherever she went. It was so demanding that it affected her studies, and it was not fair that she was deemed by her mother as “retarded,” when she got a very low grade.²⁴ When she got her period, her mother did not even teach her about it. She was just screamed at, “Filthy prostitute! May you be barren! May you get cancer!” Then she was hit by her mother’s fists. The only person who helped her understand about it was her brother.²⁵

Eventually, their mother hired an itinerant preacher or a ma’alim to teach them the Quran every Saturday. So aside from her usual responsibilities, she was expected to learn the Quran the old way — they had to open a chapter, write it on the wooden board, recite it by heart, and wash the board with reverence (since it became holy because of the writing), which was done for 2 hours and you will get hit by a sharp stick if you get a mistake. She found it boring and she had so much to do. She had homework, and she needed to deal with her hair, and their mother wanted her to work on her hair as well, then she also needed to wash her school uniforms, and their mother even wanted her to wash her siblings’ as well. There was one Saturday when she was only able to do her homework but was too tired to wash or clean. This made their mother beat her, which made her not want to learn from the ma’alim anymore. But this preacher went back and disciplined her by blindfolding her and hitting her with all his might with a sharp stick, and when she got angry and glared at the ma’alim, he shoved her head against the wall, and he stopped because there was a cracking noise.²⁶ Their mother continued to beat her when she was not able to do her responsibilities because of her injuries. Though she was alive, they discovered when she was brought to the hospital that she had a fracture in her skull, and a large amount of blood aggregated between the skin of her head and her skull, which compressed the brain. Her clan paid for this immediate operation.²⁷

Fast-forward to Hirsi Ali’s marriage. She was arranged to be wed twice. The first one was to her cousin, Mahmud, which was arranged by her aunt, Khadija. He was the son of her mother’s brother, Muhammad. When Mahmud’s mother died, Khadija took care of him. This happened when Mahmud got a prestigious award to study in Russia, and they needed to do it in a few days. There was no proposal. The one who stood as Hirsi Ali’s guardian was a mutual cousin of theirs named Ali Wersengeli. They did not let her father or brother know about it. She wore a long red dress, and the bride price given was “One Holy Quran.” She was a secret bride so there was no one to pay the bride price to. She admitted that she did this because of being consumed by lust. There was really nothing between her and Mahmud that made it romantic.²⁸

Eighteen months later, Hirsi Ali’s father arranged for her to marry Osman Moussa. He was a fine Somali man who grew up in Canada. He was a stranger to her. She was indifferent towards him, but she tried to get to know him. According to her words, the guy was bigoted, dull, ineloquent, and unwilling to own up to his shortcomings. Nevertheless, her father pleads with her that he is from a good lineage, has a good career, and is also a clean and conscientious worker. At least, for her father, this will ensure her security.²⁹ Ali Wersengeli, the officiated guardian of the previous marriage blew up in rage when he learned about this upcoming wedding. Hirsi Ali admitted to it, but she also said that Mahmud had later fallen for a Finnish girl who he wanted to marry, so she reasoned that their marriage was just a mistake. When she produced the paper that Ali Wersengeli gave her, Mahad argued that it was not a legal document, and he ripped it to shreds.³⁰

To bring Hirsi Ali to Canada, her father had arranged her trip to Germany to obtain her Canadian visa quicker instead of having to wait for it in Kenya.³¹ When she had arrived in Düsseldorf, she called a friend whom she rescued from a refugee camp before, who was in Holland. After successfully lying to her mother and her guardian in Germany by disguising her plan to go to Holland as a short visit to a relative³², she applied for asylum under the name Ayaan Hirsi Ali, so that her relatives will not be able to find her. She got accepted as a refugee and managed to escape her father.³³

In Holland, Hirsi Ali started very humbly and worked various jobs, persevering despite being discouraged by other people to pursue a political science degree. She entered Leiden University eventually.³⁴ When she graduated, she worked as a junior researcher in The Labor Party’s think tank.³⁵ Then the 9/11 terrorist attacks happened, making her ask about the true nature of Islam and her stance on it. She watched the old interviews of Osama Bin Laden and saw justifications quoted in the Quran: “When you meet the unbelievers, strike them in the neck.” “If you do not go out and fight, God will punish you severely and put others in your place.” “Wherever you find the polytheists, kill them, seize them, besiege them, ambush them.” “You who believe, do not take the Jews and Christians as friends; they are allies only to each other. Anyone who takes them as an ally becomes one of them.” Hirsi Ali also cites Bin Laden quoting the hadith: “The Hour [of Judgement] will not come until the Muslims fight the Jews and kill them.”³⁶ She examined Bin Laden’s words with the Quran and the hadith and saw that the quotations matched.³⁷ This made her realize that the Quran is not a holy document, but one merely written by humans. She writes that it was a very tribal and Arab version of the events. She also adds that it spreads a culture of brutality, bigotry, misogyny, and war. The 9/11 was the catalyst for her apostasy.

Ever since she has fought against Islam and championed Western values. In a debate at The Balie, she mentions that Muslims are fleeing their countries and taking refuge in Holland, and they also fly planes into buildings. For her, this meant that Muslims were living in the “Dark Ages,” and they needed another Voltaire for Islam. I think she unwittingly became the Voltaire of Islam ever since.³⁸ She also observes that Pim Fortuyn was right that the ethnic minorities did not espouse Dutch values, that Muslims will eventually be the majority in most of Holland’s major cities, and that they mostly failed to accept the rights of women and homosexuals, and also the basic principles of democracy. She observes that the Labor Party avoided this glaring issue.³⁹ In her research, she mentions that Muslims in Holland make disproportionately heavy claims on social welfare and disability benefits and they were disproportionately involved in crime. She thinks that one of the reasons is possibly Islam since it affects every facet of a believer’s life. She argues that due to it, women were denied social and economic rights. She further points out that ignorant women bring up ignorant children, the Insh’Allah attitude is said to affect people’s energy that they are not willing to change and improve the world, since it is “Allah’s will” anyway, and this has a link to poverty.

Her approach to the immigration question was cultural. She observed that women in Holland could walk the streets on their own, wear what they liked, worked and enjoyed their own salaries, and married who they loved, studied in a university, and purchased property, but Muslim women could not do that even in the same country. In addition, she mentioned that Dutch parents breed their daughters to be self-reliant, while Muslim parents breed their daughters to be docile and submissive.⁴⁰ Now, these are just some of the things she said in her book, but she spoke about many controversial things that outraged Muslims. It even came to a point when she had to be protected by bodyguards at all times. Furthermore, Theo van Gogh helped her make the film Submission, which exposes the struggles of women under Islam. Some of the things included there were forced marriage, forceful submission in sex, being beaten, and a young girl that was punished for being a victim of rape.⁴¹ Due to this, Theo was murdered by a Muslim. He was shot, his throat was cut, and the killer stabbed a note in Theo’s chest. The letter was structured like a fatwa.⁴²

In case you want to know more about her views on mass migration, sexual violence, and the rights of women, I recommend that you read Prey: Immigration, Islam, and the Erosion of Women’s Rights (2021).

The Dissident Dialogues and Commentary

The Dissident Dialogues gives us a fast forward of her turning point, confirming that she is truly a Christian and not merely a cultural Christian like Dawkins. Her candor and humility are worth admiring in this brief explanation. She reveals that her conversion was similar to most who come to faith–devoid of any spectacle–though she confessed that it was through a personal crisis. She had a decade of intense depression and self-loathing, which led to a point when she did not want to live anymore. She consulted several psychiatrists hoping to make sense of her condition scientifically. And in January and February of 2023, Hirsi Ali met a therapist who described her condition as “spiritual bankruptcy.” Since she had nothing to lose, she prayed to God. And she felt the miracle of being connected to a higher power, and having her vigor for life restored.⁴³

As an expected back-and-forth, my commentary will first quote what was said by Dawkins and Hirsi Ali (under dialogue), and then I will give a brief commentary about it (under comment).

Dialogue:

Dawkins: “… A Christian has to believe in something. … You go to church now, and you listen to the vicar, and you kind of notice what a lot of nonsense he talks. Do you really take it seriously? Jesus is the Son of God, Jesus rose from the dead, Jesus was born of a virgin, that’s part of Christianity.”

Ayaan Hirsi Ali: “I think because you, and I know you very well, we’ve been friends for a long time. And in fact in some ways I think of you as a mentor. I would say that you are coming at this from a place of “there is nothing.” And what has happened to me is I think I have accepted that “there is something.” And when you accept that “there is something,” and there is a powerful entity, for me the God that turned me around, I think what the vicar is saying no longer sounds nonsensical, it makes a great deal of sense.”⁴⁴

Comment:

Dawkins’ directness when he asks whether Hirsi Ali believes the doctrines of Christianity is satisfying. This ascertains whether she is merely fundamentally driven to believe Christianity by its political and moral benefits, or if she truly believes the faith. Her response is not something I prefer since it has yet to be developed to maturity, like the responses of our seasoned apologists. Nevertheless, it is understandable as she is new to the faith. She explains in her own terms the difference in their presuppositions. He believes that God does not exist, while she does; and when he shows incredulity to the orthodox doctrines of the faith, she is right to point out that he assumes atheism from the get-go, which is question-begging. Furthermore, she is right to say that if there is a powerful being such as a God, then it is reasonable to believe in miracles. The atheist who is at least willing to entertain for the sake of argument that there is a God must appreciate the possibility of miracles in the equation.

Dialogue:

Richard Dawkins: “So you believe in some kind of higher power, which is comforting you. And obviously you are reacting from an Islamic past, and I know that from what you have written that part of what you feel is that Christianity is a bulwark against Islam, which is a quite a separate thing from what you been now saying but you stand by that, that’s part of what you’re saying. And I accept that and I support that. That’s why I am calling you a political Christian, but from what you’ve just said, it sounds that you’re more than just a political Christian. It sounds as you actually believe it.”

Freddie Sayers (Moderator): “What is your response to those specific questions of Richard? When the vicar is saying that Jesus is the Son of God literally not figuratively, how do you square that with your highly trained rational mind?”

Ayaan Hirsi Ali: “Well, it is again, different planes of perception. I choose to accept Jesus Christ, the teachings of Jesus Christ, the story of Jesus Christ. I choose to accept that, so on the personal level, the rewards I get are very subjective again but mine and through choice, which is separate from where I think that aside from my personal experience, the history of Western civilization is mainly Christian, and that the external forces for instance, the spread of Islam, non-violently or violently, and the challenge of Islam, and the message of Islam to Western civilization can be countered and should be countered with the message of Western civilization, which is essentially Christian. And in that sense I think there are more people who agree with me, but that is on the societal level, and then on civilizational level, I think that every moral, you’ve used yourself Richard, the phrase lately that there is moral Christianity and there is cultural Christianity, and when moral and cultural Christianity collides with moral and cultural Islam, or moral or cultural Confucianism, or cultural authoritarianism, I think perhaps we are on the same page about that might be a way of countering it. But on a personal level, yes I choose to believe in God. And I think there, we might say, let’s agree to disagree.”⁴⁵

Comment:

Though Hirsi Ali’s belief is already clear in the first back-and-forth, Dawkins asked again to ascertain his interpretation that she actually believes the faith. Sayers piggybacks on this, asking how she could reconcile her beliefs with her rational mind. From what I could get from her, it all boils down to her choosing to believe in Jesus Christ. I have to say that she needs to further clarify her statement. Her choice could be taken as a Kierkegaardian “leap of faith” which exhibits a non-rational trust in Jesus. But I lean against this direction because she mentioned before that there is something rational to what the vicar was saying, as though it makes sense because of her experience. We have to be charitable towards her by making a distinction between “showing Christianity to be true” and “knowing Christianity to be true.” In their discussion, she seems to be unable to show Dawkins in a satisfactory way how her faith is not against reason, but even if that is the case, her faith is not shaken because something in her experience with God confirms to her the truth of Christianity.

I praise God for answering her prayer: she now has a zest for life again. Her story is similar to some former skeptics I have met. A friend of mine who was an atheist was not brought to Christianity by intellectual arguments. But in a very dark time in his life, a pastor’s message that he providentially watched as he was contemplating suicide resonated with him, making him trust in Jesus. Another friend was an agnostic, but unlike Hirsi Ali, he had a supernatural experience. God Himself had appeared to Him in a vision, and he believed ever since. I am looking forward to Hirsi Ali being able to better articulate her experience as she processes it, and I pray that she finds Christians who can help her make sense of her experience.

Dialogue:

Richard Dawkins: “Islam is a nasty religion. I think we agree about that. But Christianity is not all that nice either. And when you think about Christianity. … is obsessed with sin. St. Augustine said that we all inherit the sin of Adam, well of course, he didn’t exist. But so we inherit original sin. Original sin came down in the semen. Jesus was not conceived with semen, that’s why he’s clear of sin. His mother Mary had to be clear of sin as well so she had to have an immaculate conception. This is all obvious nonsense. This is all theological ********. The idea that humanity is born in sin and has to be cured of sin by Jesus being crucified, Jesus being punished for all our sins, that is a morally very unpleasant idea. I’m sure you must agree about that.”

Ayaan Hirsi Ali: “I find that Christianity is actually obsessed with love. And that the figure, the teachings of Christ as I see it, and again I’m a brand new Christian. But what I’m finding out which is the opposite of growing up as a Muslim, the message of Islam. But the message of Christianity, I get is that it’s a message of love, it’s a message of redemption, and it’s a story of renewal and rebirth. And so Jesus dying and rising again for me symbolizes that story. And in a small way I felt like I had died and I was reborn and that story of redemption and rebirth I think makes Christianity actually a very very powerful story for the human condition and the human existence, and the pain of suffering, but also our internal, the recognition of what you call sin, but perhaps the character defects that both good and evil are there, but that both good and evil are in us. I think those teachings in Christianity are far far more powerful and have led to I think the flourishing of Western civilization, compared to say growing up as a Muslim when I was taught that really the only way for you to be faithful is to fear, naked fear. And to have these sets of obligations which you basically obey and that is very much about power, about it was centered around hellfire, and all of these other things. And so Christianity as I experience: I’ll give you an example, when I was an atheist, and I was going all over both the United States and all over Europe mocking Christians, making fun of them, making fun of faith, as you’re doing now dear Richard, I was walking with six to seven men at any given time protecting me armed from things that I said that were offensive to Muslims. … Christians were writing me letters saying, “You know we’re going to pray for you, you are misguided.” And I think that alone defines for me the distinction between Christianity in general, mainstream Christianity and mainstream Islam.”⁴⁶

Comment:

In trying to prove how Christianity is foolish, Dawkins relates that Augustine believed that sin came down in the semen. This is problematic because Christians do not need to agree with Augustine for them to believe in man’s depravity. For example, William Lane Craig argues that it is not a satisfying view to hold because aside from generating a negative view of sexuality, moral properties are not physically transmittable.⁴⁷ Dawkins is also left unchallenged about his further claims when he makes a side comment that Adam does not exist without providing conclusive evidence. He also mentions that the idea of being born in sin and needing remedy through Jesus’ atonement is morally unpleasant. It needs to be clear how or in what sense is that unpleasant. Surely it is unpleasant to be exposed to the reality of human nature. There is a promulgated idea that we are born without sin and eventually, we will become better as the world modernizes, but we discover from Vladimir Lenin, Joseph Stalin, Adolf Hitler, Mao Zedong, Imperial Japan, Stanley Milgram, David Mantell, Hannah Arendt, Ellie Wiesel, Primo Levi, and Alexander Solzhenitsyn, that human nature is indeed depraved. And evil is not only limited to the vilest and most vicious of men and those who are mentally ill, but it also applies to ordinary people like us. We begin to realize, in our study of history, that we cannot be self-righteous by thinking that we can outdo those who went before us, because in us lies the tendency to oppression or cowardice. This pattern shows our need to be redeemed. And to be redeemed by Jesus is a beautiful picture, as Hirsi Ali relates to Dawkins. It shows us that we have hope as we are not left to fend for ourselves and can be freed from living miserable and depraved lives. In Jesus, we can actually be free to please God without fear.

Hirsi Ali then mentions the naked fear that she attributes to Islam. This objection can also be heard from skeptics against Christianity, and I think this misconception is due to the fault of ultrafundamentalist hellfire preaching. This makes people see God as someone who waits for us to make a mistake so He can punish us and make our lives miserable. But Hirsi Ali sees the essence of true Christianity. You become a Christian not because you are afraid of going to hell, but because of the power and beauty of God’s love. Of course, this does not deny that hell is indeed terrible, it will be a normal response of sinners as they grasp more the holiness of God, but when God convicts us of our sins, it is meant as mercy and grace, so that we can begin to realize that we need salvation. And I think she has experienced this rebirth or what we call regeneration. It is a secret work of God where the dead in sin are made spiritually alive. And this is experienced by those who believe in Jesus.

She also mentions that the story of the cross is powerful for our condition, existence, suffering, etc., and I agree. It shows that evil is a reality whereas Dawkins cannot ground that in his atheistic worldview; for him, we just dance to the music of our DNA. In Christianity, there is evil because we all rebelled against God. But we are not left alone in evil and suffering, because God Himself became a man to suffer for us to set us free from sin and evil and bring us to paradise. We see that God is not in an ivory tower; He walked with us and suffered with us. This comforting truth that secures our eternity also bequeathed us a heritage, and those are the temporal goods that we now enjoy, such as human rights, science, capitalism, equality of men and women, emancipation of slavery, etc.

Dialogue:

Richard Dawkins: “Suppose it were true that atheism doesn’t offer anything. … So what? Why should it offer anything? Why should the universe offer you anything?”

Freddie Sayers (Moderator): “What is the scientific explanation for you being moved to tears by St. Matthew’s passion?”

Richard Dawkins: “Well, it’s neurology. Let me ask Ayaan… (interrupted)

Ayaan Hirsi Ali: “I think the question you ask now is very interesting. Why should atheism offer you anything? There is no reason why atheism should offer anything, but something else, faith offers something valuable and tangible and great, so why should atheism mock that and knock it down? Is it not possible to have this coexistence where there is a place for reason and there is a place for faith and for subjectivity, just like we agree to have a separation between religion and politics. I think it is absolutely possible to have and Christianity allows for that a separation of science, …the material world, the temporal world vs. the world of faith and these things when they complement each other, I think lead to a much more powerful outcome than when you… again I find the differences between us a little cosmetic and a little artificial because there are so many things I agree with that you are saying. It’s just that the attitude that atheists take that if you do not see the world the way they see it and if you don’t live according to reason, you must be an idiot, you must be unintelligent, you must be stupid… I think that is a bit smacks of… okay…”

Richard Dawkins: “Let’s not go there, I don’t want to say that. What I do want to say is this, faith offers you something obviously, that’s very very very clear. But it doesn’t make it true. It doesn’t make the existence claims of Christianity true. There is a difference from saying that being in a certain psychological place is consoling and comforting and offers you a meaningful life… and gives you a purpose in life, all those things which are wonderful, and I have them too. They’re a bit different but I too have a purpose in life, I have a meaning in life. But just simply because something gives you a meaning and a purpose in life, it doesn’t make the existential claims true, and Christianity like any other religion makes claims about the world, about the universe which are either true or not true, and I may be wrong and you may be right, they may be true, but the mere fact that they’re comforting, doesn’t make them true.”⁴⁸

Comment:

I agree that atheism does not offer us anything. William Lane Craig has repeatedly shown the absurdity of life without God. He states that if God does not exist, then there is no ultimate meaning, value, or purpose. This does not deny temporal fulfillment in an earthly sense; Dawkins admits to having a sense of purpose despite his atheism. But if God does not exist, then we are just a cosmic accident. There is no reason why we are here. It does not matter whether we have done good or bad because we will all be stardust in the heat death of the universe. Sacrifices for improving human civilization will be brought into oblivion. Dawkins himself describes, “The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but blind pitiless indifference.”⁴⁹ It seems that the best comfort that atheism could offer to the victims of school shootings or tsunamis is “tough luck.”

I also agree with Dawkins and Hirsi Ali that mere comfort does not make a worldview true. Just because something brings us comfort, peace of mind, or hope, it doesn’t automatically mean that it’s true. It could just be a wish fulfillment or a lie that helps us keep going because reality is too brutal. For something to be true, it should pass our philosophical criteria: that the view is coherent, that it is the best explanation of all the evidence that we have, and that it corresponds with reality. And the beauty of Christianity is that it does not merely give us hope or make us feel good. Though it feeds our existential needs, it is a faith that is true. And based on this, I challenge the readers to study Christian apologetics, so that they will see the wealth of evidence provided by many Christian thinkers. For starters, people should devour the material of apologists. Some of them are William Lane Craig, John Lennox, Norman Geisler, Frank Turek, Greg Koukl, and Josh McDowell.

As with Hirsi Ali’s remark on the coexistence with reason, faith, and subjectivity. Her phrasing makes it seem that faith is akin to subjectivity. While there is room for our subjective preferences, the Christian faith is objectively true, and it is not something that contradicts rationality. In fact, rationality will not work if there is no faith to begin with. For example, we trust that our senses are reliable as we look at scientific instruments. But we do not test our senses first before we do that. Our sense of understanding the world around us and its being predictable makes science work in the first place, and these are ontologically grounded and accounted for by God. For He providentially designed our senses to accurately perceive reality, and He designed the universe to follow the natural law that He desired. This would not make sense from an atheistic worldview. If evolution “chooses” our beliefs based on their survival value, then how can we be sure of the truth of our beliefs? Even David Hume told us that we could not know the future from the past, so how can we account for the uniformity of nature?

Hirsi Ali also mentions the separation of the material world and the world of faith. But I do not see why there should be a separation. If God exists, then the natural and supernatural both exist in reality. I also disagree that the differences between Hirsi Ali and Dawkins are just cosmetic. Though they agree on the political aspect, there is a fundamental difference in their assumptions. Dawkins rejects the supernatural and Hirsi Ali affirms it, and this has wide implications.

Dialogue:

Richard Dawkins: “It may be true historically that rational secular humanism grew out of Christianity in a sense that historically that’s where it came from, but you could say it’s a reaction against Christianity rather than having being in concert with Christianity.”

Ayaan Hirsi Ali: “But even as a reaction against Christianity, the things that, the advances that we have made are rooted in that story and my objection to throwing the baby out with the bath water is that if you create this disconnect so that young people do not, they don’t, they haven’t been told of those debates. They’re reading works that tell them that everything, the white male Christian left behind is exploitative, it’s destructive, it has to be replaced with something else, it’s settler, colonial, whatever, it’s being cut off from the roots of that civilization. And I think part of the reason why that vacuum came about and it was possible was because of this casting aside of Christianity and this attitude within atheism that if you say reason, everybody will suddenly start becoming, you know reasonable, and think reasonably, and in that’s been a mistake, G.K. Chesterton was right.”

Freddie Sayers (Moderator): “Do you regret having been part of the new atheism movement, having preached atheism from that pulpit?”

Ayaan Hirsi Ali: “I do regret doing that and I want to say that when I realized the damage that I was doing, and I was doing a great deal of damage, by equating Islam with Christianity, first of all it is false, we were talking about truth and falsehood, and not all religions are the same, religions are different, because they are, they come out of different cultures and grow out of different contexts, so Christianity is not the same as Islam and I’m guilty of having said, “Well all faiths, all perceptions of God, are the same and they’re equally damaging.” So I come back from that, and I also come to regret the damage that I’ve done. I want to see, I want to make my friends like Richard and Sam Harris, and Daniel Dennett, and all the others, I want you to see what I see. And what I see is where you have a moral vacuum, something is going to fill it. I want you to see that the teachings of Christianity, just like you said, if there is a competition between team Christian and team Islam, you would be on team Christian. That what you value in Christianity is something that really is absolutely necessary to pass on to the next generation. And we have failed the next generation, by taking away from them that moral framework, and telling them it’s nonsense and false, but also not protecting them then from the external forces that come in for their hearts, their minds, and their souls.”⁵⁰

Comment:

I love Hirsi Ali’s statement here. Unlike Dawkins who does not regret his attacks against Christianity under the pretense of truth, she makes a statement that we could take as her public repentance of her role in the New Atheism movement. And while atheists like Sam Harris think that we can do away with religion, Hirsi Ali is right that the attacks against Christianity are damaging to Western civilization. This is because if the next generation begins to see a caricatured version of Christianity that could be easily destroyed, then future generations will begin to forget about it, and without the soul that brought the Western civilization alive, the things we enjoy will eventually decay, and perhaps something else will be in power. From a country where we enjoy human rights, democracy, and freedom of religion, we will become a state under a totalitarian atheistic regime, or under a barbaric theocratic state.

Dawkins’ enjoyment of the fruit but his hatred of the tree does not make sense. At least, unlike other atheists, he is under Team Christianity for being politically a Christian. He enjoys science, democracy, freedom, etc., and this is the reason he is on this team. But if he attacks the team so as to lead people to repudiate Christianity, then by analogy, he will no longer be able to enjoy the fruits once the tree is removed from its roots.

Many have tried to do away with Christianity in history, for example, The French Revolution believed in liberty, equality, and fraternity; and the Declaration of the Rights of Man asserted that rights do not come from God, but are something that belong to the state. The Declaration of Independence, on the other hand, shows us that men have inalienable rights from God. The French Revolution was bloody and atrocious. Edmund Burke was right in arguing that it failed because they ignored Christianity. So if Dawkins were to be successful in making people disbelieve Christianity, then the next generation might not enjoy the things he enjoyed in the West. It will be a tragic tale.

With that said, as a Christian, this reminds me that what I am fighting for is far-reaching and not in vain. Not only does the gospel save the souls of people (which is my main concern, since what use is it if you are in team Christianity politically if you will not be with Jesus when He comes again?), but in the process, it also generates much earthly good that all, regardless of their beliefs, get to enjoy. We should maintain and protect this from conflagration.

Conclusion

Ayaan Hirsi Ali’s life shows us that she is not a thinker from an ivory tower, but her life in Somalia, Saudi Arabia, and Kenya shows us that she had seen the evils of socialism and Islam itself. The evils of Islam had made her an atheist, but the ideals that she learned from the Netherlands impelled her to fight for the true emancipation of women, and also in preserving Western civilization against the threat of integration. By God’s grace, her descent into despair had led her to seek help, which providentially led her to realize that she was spiritually bankrupt. Thus, she came to know Jesus Christ. In her dialogue with Richard Dawkins, she professes that she is indeed a true Christian. She affirms the doctrines of the faith that Dawkins finds deserving of mockery. It is my hope and prayer that she finds people who will help her grow and guide her in the faith. I am looking forward to hearing her articulate her faith better in the future and be one of our champions for the greater good and the glory of God.

References:

1. Ayaan Hirsi Ali, “Why I am now a Christian Atheism can’t equip us for civilisational war,” UnHerd, entry posted November 11, 2023, https://unherd.com/2023/11/why-i-am-now-a-christian/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR1jxfFwAzDnHLuzJjR8Uil5mepP2IR7L2rNIMz_5yM18Z52Y3nV9rAwbS0_aem_ZmFrZWR1bW15MTZieXRlcw (accessed November 12, 2023).
2. Alex O’Connor and Richard Dawkins, “Religion Is Still Evil — Richard Dawkins,” Alex O’Connor, YouTube video, 0:00–1:57, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaRVzooavRI.
3. Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Infidel (UK: Pocket Books, 2008),193. Her reason for doing this was so that her family would not be able to track her as she was trying to escape her husband. She was arranged by her father to marry against her will.
4. Ali, Infidel, 3.
5. Ibid., 4.
6. Ibid., 10.
7. Ibid., 11.
8. Ibid., 17.
9. Ibid., 19.
10. Ibid., 35.
11. Ibid., 14–15.
12. Ibid., 19.
13. Ibid., 24.
14. Ibid., 30.
15. Ibid., 31.
16. Ibid., 34–35.
17. Ibid., 42.
18. Ibid., 45.
19. Ibid., 47.
20. Ibid., 48.
21. Ibid., 49.
22. Ibid.
23. Ibid., 63–64.
24. Ibid., 69–70.
25. Ibid., 72.
26. Ibid., 74–75.
27. Ibid., 76–77.
28. Ibid., 137–143.
29. Ibid., 170–174.
30. Ibid., 175–176.
31. Ibid., 178.
32. Ibid., 188.
33. Ibid., 198.
34. Ibid., 237.
35. Ibid., 267.
36. Ibid., 271.
37. Ibid., 272–273.
38. Ibid., 275.
39. Ibid., 276.
40. Ibid., 279.
41. Ibid., 314.
42. Ibid., 322.
43. Richard Dawkins, Freddie Sayers, and Ayaan Hirsi Ali, “Theological BULLSH*T!” Richard Dawkins Challenges Ayaan Hirsi Ali’s New-Found Christianity,” Dissident Dialogues, YouTube video, 5:40–8:00 , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbjHyz_7fCg.
44. Ibid., 8:42–10:00.
45. Ibid., 11:23–14:10.
46. Ibid., 14:34–18:39.
47. William Lane Craig, “#878 Whence Our Inclination to Sin?,” Reasonable Faith, entry posted March 10, 2024, https://www.reasonablefaith.org/writings/question-answer/whence-our-inclination-to-sin (accessed June 20, 2024).
48. Richard Dawkins, Freddie Sayers, and Ayaan Hirsi Ali, “Theological BULLSH*T!” Richard Dawkins Challenges Ayaan Hirsi Ali’s New-Found Christianity,” Dissident Dialogues, YouTube video, 31:17–34:30 , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbjHyz_7fCg.
49. Richard Dawkins, River Out of Eden: A Darwinian View of Life (NY: Science Masters, 1995), 133. “In a universe of blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, other people are going to get lucky, and you won’t find any rhyme or reason in it, nor any justice. The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.”
50. Richard Dawkins, Freddie Sayers, and Ayaan Hirsi Ali, “Theological BULLSH*T!” Richard Dawkins Challenges Ayaan Hirsi Ali’s New-Found Christianity,” Dissident Dialogues, YouTube video, 45:23–48:33 , https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbjHyz_7fCg.